Tweaking the setup. SD video on a 4x3 television that thinks it is 16x9

[Ommina]

Ok, first. A bit of background.

• An early HD TV. Projection, not one of these fancy plasma things kids today have. Projection! Will never hang from a wall! It will do 480 and 1080, but not 720, for reasons I don't pretend to understand.
  
• The shape of said TV is 4x3 - NOT a widescreen.
  
• PC video card is an ATI HD 2600. The only 1080 option that Catalyst Control Centre offers is 1920x1080. If there is a way for it to go with a 4x3 (1440x1080 I guess), I've been unable to find it.
  

The two work well enough, except, of course GBPVR shows up widescreen letterboxed, with black bars top and bottom. Not at all unexpected, since the desktop resolution is 16x9.

Which is fine. Not perfect, but fine.

The challenge comes when watching a 4x3 video, since now the various parts want to conspire to put but black bars at the top, AND black bars on both left and right sides to bring the display back to 4x3. So now, on the 4x3 television, I'm watching a 4x3 video in a little box with roughly a third of the screen around all edges.

Which is just silly.

But none of my proddings have been able to find a solution. Thus, my appeal to the rest of the readers here.

First - the TV shape in config. Do I set it to 4x3 (the physical shape), or 16x9 (the desktop resolution forced upon it)?
Second - the Aspect Ratio Modes in config.xml. I don't see how fiddling with these can help, but I'd like to be sure.
Third - Does (can?) GBPVR change the desktop resolution to 480 on playing a video? (Or, alternately, start at 480, then switch to 1080 if necessary). Or is it fixed to the desktop resolution at startup?
Fourth! - Anybody aware of any tricks to get CCC to give me 1440x1080?

Output from the video to the TV is through the "svideo" connector on the card that splits to a component video cable (red, blue, green) and then to the TV.

Sorry, nope, no DVI / HDMI on the TV. Component only. Did I mention it's a bit... advanced in years ?

Any comments / suggestions are very much welcomed and most appreciated. Thanks!

[johnsonx42]

In order of your questions:

First - You set the TV Shape to match the physical shape of the TV. The actual resolution of the TV is completely irrelevant to GB-PVR, at least as far as playing video is concerned.

Second - those are used to properly display the different source aspect ratios. Some have negative numbers, and will ONLY work with the VMR9 renderers. The overlay and EVR renderers can't use negative numbers. Search for a thread I started called something like "negative aspect ratios ignored", that will give you some more info about the way those numbers.

Third - no, gb-pvr can't change the resolution. You get whatever resolution you started at.

Fourth - I think Powerstrip will let you define custom resolutions (though I've never used it). there are probably other ways

[hoborg]

Hi.
If you install SAF (of FFDShow), you can configure it to change aspect ratio for MPEG-2 video (in FFDshow settings).
This will possibly fix your problem.
Link below.

[johnsonx42]

Ommina, on thinking a little more about your problem, I feel the need to point out more explicitly that your resolution issue is a red herring, it has nothing to do with your video size problem. Having a screen resolution that doesn't match your display aspect ratio will ONLY affect the appearance of the GB-PVR user interface (so it's still worth fixing if possible). It has no effect on video playback.

You simply need to put the following into your config.xml (replace the existing <AspectRatioModes shape="4x3"> section):

Code:

<AspectRatioModes shape="4x3">
    <AspectRatioMode name="Auto" ratio="0,0,0,0" />
    <AspectRatioMode name="Fill" ratio="0,0,1,1" />
    <AspectRatioMode name="LetterBox" ratio="-0.15,0,1.15,1" />
    <AspectRatioMode name="WideScreen" ratio="0,0.125,1,0.875" />
    <AspectRatioMode name="Zoom" ratio="-0.15,-0.15,1.15,1.15" />
  </AspectRatioModes>

These are copied from my config.xml, I use each of those modes every day.

Make sure your TV Shape is set to 4x3, and make sure you're using one of the VMR9 renderers. Auto will usually do what you want it to, and when it doesn't you can use F7 to cycle to a mode that looks right.

Basically, Fill is for true 4x3 content, it just displays it full screen. "Letterbox" is for 4x3 content broadcast in a 16x9 format; it actually means UN-letterbox, it takes the 4x3 center of the frame and pulls it out to full screen, cropping off the left and right sides (it's also great for many 16x9 shows which actually waste the screen space beyond the standard 4x3 frame). "Widescreen" is for 'true' 16x9 content where you really do want to see the whole frame. Finally "Zoom" is for an odd situation where a 4x3 frame is pillarboxed into a 16x9 frame, which itself has been letterboxed into a 4x3 frame for broadcast on an SD channel; it pulls the middle 4x3 frame back to full screen (it's a 15% linear zoom). (I run into the latter situation a lot on the SD 4x3 PBS sub-channels, they often re-broadcast streams that were formatted to be aired on the HD 16x9 main channel)

'Auto' chooses 'Fill' for 4x3 streams, and 'Letterbox' for 16x9 streams.

[Ommina]

Ommina, on thinking a little more about your problem, I feel the need to point out more explicitly that your resolution issue is a red herring, it has nothing to do with your video size problem. Having a screen resolution that doesn't match your display aspect ratio will ONLY affect the appearance of the GB-PVR user interface (so it's still worth fixing if possible). It has no effect on video playback.

Heh, just as well that you're being explicit about it too, because I'm clearly not getting it. And still aren't.

If I set the desktop resolution to something x 480, the television switches to 480p mode, and I get full use of the screen. If I set the desktop resolution to something x 1080, the television switches to 1080i, and I'm in a letterbox, with black bars top and bottom. This includes the GBPVR screens.

Now, if I'm in 480 (desktop & tv) and play a 720 video, I'm not getting 720 lines of resolution am I? The television, after all, doesn't switch to 1080 (it pops up a little message when it does). I would think that I'd just be getting my 720 lines converted down to 480. Am I mistaken in this?

If the television is at 1080 and I play a 720 video, all is well. If I play a 480 though, it's black bars on all four edges, which looks silly.

I did try powerstrip, as mentioned in your first reply. With it, I was able to create a custom 1440x1080 resolution. But the tv remained resolute in displaying black borders on top and bottom, but added them to the left and right as well. Which isn't quite what I'd hoped to achieve.

Just the same, I'll try out those AspectRatioModes. I admit I don't have a complete grasp of how this all holds together.

Thank you and hoborg both for your kind replies.

[nitrogen_widget]

Does you TV have a zoom function on the remote?
What model TV is it?

[johnsonx42]

If I set the desktop resolution to something x 480, the television switches to 480p mode, and I get full use of the screen. If I set the desktop resolution to something x 1080, the television switches to 1080i, and I'm in a letterbox, with black bars top and bottom. This includes the GBPVR screens.

That's up to your TV. If you get a letterbox when you set your Desktop resolution to 1080i, then your TV is doing that and nothing you do in GB-PVR can change it.

Now, if I'm in 480 (desktop & tv) and play a 720 video, I'm not getting 720 lines of resolution am I? The television, after all, doesn't switch to 1080 (it pops up a little message when it does). I would think that I'd just be getting my 720 lines converted down to 480. Am I mistaken in this?

Once you set your resolution in Windows, it stays that way. Any video content you play is scaled up or down to match your resolution... the resolution output to the TV is NEVER changed to match the content (though it has been requested of sub to make that happen; I think he said it's not likely to happen).

If the television is at 1080 and I play a 720 video, all is well. If I play a 480 though, it's black bars on all four edges, which looks silly.

That's because the TV is letter-boxing your 1080i display to maintain the 16:9 aspect ratio. 720p is also 16:9, so it looks fine. When you play SD 4:3 content however, GB-PVR properly pillarboxes it into the middle of the screen, believing that you have a 16x9 display. You could create an <AspectRatioMode> that will pull 4:3 content out to the edge of the 16:9 display, but the display will either be stretched horizontally or cropped vertically (or some combination thereof).

I did try powerstrip, as mentioned in your first reply. With it, I was able to create a custom 1440x1080 resolution. But the tv remained resolute in displaying black borders on top and bottom, but added them to the left and right as well. Which isn't quite what I'd hoped to achieve.

Yes, now you've got a 4:3 resolution pillarboxed into the 16:9 frame. Your TV may not allow you to improve this situation.

Just the same, I'll try out those AspectRatioModes. I admit I don't have a complete grasp of how this all holds together.

Sorry, now I see that they won't help you either. I misunderstood the source of your problem, so much of what I said in previous replies doesn't apply. The TV itself is doing it to you. When it gets a 1080i signal, it letterboxes it. When it gets a 480 signal, it shows it full screen. GB-PVR and Windows can't make it behave differently. The only thing I can suggest is to play with the available resolutions... pick the highest one that the TV will display full screen.

As nitrogen_widget suggested, perhaps your TV has a 'Zoom' or 'Aspect Ratio' or 'Picture Size' button that might show a 1080i signal in full screen.

In any case, your TV Shape setting in GB-PVR should be set to the physical shape of what the TV displays, regardless of the resolution.

If you can't trick your TV into displaying any HD resolution full screen, then if I were you I'd just go with 1920x1080i and try fiddling with an <AspectRatioMode> to stretch and crop 4:3 content to fill the screen as much as possible without distorting it too much.

[larrypg]

Having a screen resolution that doesn't match your display aspect ratio will ONLY affect the appearance of the GB-PVR user interface (so it's still worth fixing if possible). It has no effect on video playback.

What do I change to vary the aspect ratio in playback? Right now, when I playback, or timeshift or watch a recording, my screen is stretch vertically to and everyone looks tall and skinny.

The Video in LIveTV looks great and I have different aspect ratios I can switch between using F7.

[johnsonx42]

What do I change to vary the aspect ratio in playback? Right now, when I playback, or timeshift or watch a recording, my screen is stretch vertically to and everyone looks tall and skinny.

The Video in LIveTV looks great and I have different aspect ratios I can switch between using F7.

F7 works the same way in recording playback and timeshifting as it does in LiveTV, and uses the same <AspectRatioModes> defined in config.xml.

[Ommina]

If you can't trick your TV into displaying any HD resolution full screen, then if I were you I'd just go with 1920x1080i and try fiddling with an <AspectRatioMode> to stretch and crop 4:3 content to fill the screen as much as possible without distorting it too much.

And it appears this the way it is going to have to be.

The television is a Sony KP-53HS10. There is no zoom feature on the remote. There is an option to change from "4x3" to "16x9"... which is disabled while it is in 1080i mode.

So, it seems the available options are a) deal with the four borders (blah), b) find a happy balance between distortion and cropping as you suggest (meh), and c) change the desktop resolution (and thus the TV) to 480 when I want to watch SD content (blah).

Two blahs and a meh! I may fiddle with the desktop thing if I can find a way to automate it and bind it to a menu option (shut down GBPVR, change resolution, restart), but it doesn't seem like an especially reliable solution.

In the end, I guess it just comes down to having an old TV, in which the HD options are... less than mature.

On a side note, johnsonx42, thank you very much for your extensive replies and explanations as I worked through this. Appreciated!