Core2Duo desktop / notebook.

[homebrewpc]

Hi,

Hope this isn't a stupid question but I'm trying to determine whether or not a Core2Duo desktop PC is better value for money for running the excellent GB-PVR application or a Core2Duo notebook PC. Whilst I can appreciate that the latter won't have dedicated video and more than likely not the same amount of DDR or hard disk space unless quite an expensive machine can anyone advise whether a Core2Duo notebook PC (or similar specification machine) is ideally suited for running GB-PVR.

The reason why I'm confused is because Core2Duo desktop PCs do not seem to be that competitively priced compared to their mobile equivalents. Admittedly matching specification as closely as possible results in the latter being more expensive but I cannot decide which is better value for money and/or better suited for running a PC based PVR using GB-PVR.

Power consumption is something that I consider an important factor also. I've run GB-PVR on a Pentium-D however am aware that this particular CPU is quite power hungry.

Any suggestions/feedback/comments would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[wtg]

A notebook is nice because of the low power and they're designed to be quiet - ideal for the living room. However as much as I've tweaked the hardware and expanded the storage space on machine since I first built it, I'd never go with a notebook.

You're so limited on disk space with a notebook, and even if the storage you get today is sufficient, will it be next year? What if you want multiple tuners? What if you start recording HD content? If you do end up adding additional tuners or HD space, you'll probably have to go with USB or Fireware. Will you be satisfied with stacking external USB devices beside your machine? I wouldn't be.

Go with the desktop. It'll cost you less or allow you to get more for the same money, plus give you many more expansion options later.

Just my two cents,
Tim

[blizard]

Either IBM or AMD dual core for now... To me it's okay the Quad is coming out in 2007 so that will blow the dual out of the water. Any good 64-bit CPU is just as quick for running GBPVR. Now if you to get 2GB of RAM, you might want to invest in that...

By IBM do you mean Apples CPU or Intels Core 2 Duo (dual core)? From a fast look at Apples site it seem to be Intel Core 2 Duo in all the new Apples computer on both desktop and notebook. Apple had some special made CPU from IBM, but that seem to be history now.

There is no need to get any quad system yet as it is very expensive to build and it is not enough software for home use even for dual core for which you can take full advantage of multi core system. Most filters and codec are still single core and 32 bit, so you will not get a big boost of multi core sytem.

I would recommend that OP look into what GPU (video card) that could help in hardware to output video and reduce deinterlacing problems. ATIs X1xxx (from X1600 up to X1950XT or even X1950XTX) which can do HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital-Content protection) and handle AVIVO in hardware. (Nvidia have PureVideo, but you will need to buy a full software version to get the same support in hardware as you will get for free in ATIs AVIVO.)

My point are that OP will need to focus on more then just CPU power as GPU can also be vital for high definition content and good image quality. Capture card will also be of importance and with desktop you have at least the option to use internal connection (PCI, PCI express) or external (USB or Firewire).

You can also add on sound card if the integrated on board aren't up to your demand with connections (S/PDIF or analogue) or in quality although most HD audio (everything better then Realtek ALC850) today are really good in quality for normal use and some have even support for Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect.

A notebook is nice because of the low power and they're designed to be quiet - ideal for the living room. However as much as I've tweaked the hardware and expanded the storage space on machine since I first built it, I'd never go with a notebook.

You're so limited on disk space with a notebook, and even if the storage you get today is sufficient, will it be next year? What if you want multiple tuners? What if you start recording HD content? If you do end up adding additional tuners or HD space, you'll probably have to go with USB or Fireware. Will you be satisfied with stacking external USB devices beside your machine? I wouldn't be.

Go with the desktop. It'll cost you less or allow you to get more for the same money, plus give you many more expansion options later.

Just my two cents,
Tim

I don't want to start an argument, but there is nothing that say a notebook will be less demanding in power, especially if it is a low priced model (value model?) as then it is more likely a power hungry CPU inside which will eat battery for lunch or you will need to be constantly connected to power and have a warm/hot battery on your table. It is the same as for desktop that you can find high efficient (=low power demanding) CPU and you will need to do your research before you decide for what is the best in performance/price ratio.

AMD have now dual core (socket AM2) that have three power levels from 89 W, 65 W and 35 W. The price delta from normal (89W) to Energy Efficient (65W) aren't that large and they cost the same, so it is worth to consider. (I think 35 W is still too expensive only to have less power draw and you can have a silent system even with 89 W and with the correct air cooler (after market HSF) you will not hear much from the fan).

I would recommend to read http://www.silentPCreview.com to learn more about building silent systems and what one can do to keep noise at minimum level.

Intel have their Core 2 Duo that have gone very popular as these show better performance compared to FX-60 or FX-62 (high end CPU of AMD at that time), but in stock speed they are more at the same level as Athlon64 X2 (AMDs dual core).

I use GBPVR on Athlon64 X2 4200+@2200Mhz (two core at that speed) and with windows XP x64 Edition, so you will also be able to use GBPVR on any of these CPU I have suggested above.

As a last note I will add that MPEG2 (both analogue tv-tuner with hardware encoding or digital tuner produce MPEG2 files) will demand large space and GBPVR make it very easy to program/schedule recording that will fill your harddisk sooner or later and GBPVR can transcode these recording to save space. Transcoding will demand that you have enough with space and will work best with more then one harddisk in your system, so it will not need to move the heads back an forth during that often. Most notebook have a low speed (5400 RPM) harddisk to save power and very often not so much space as a desktop harddisk would offer for the same price. Save yourself some money and invest in a really good desktop system that you can build yourself and add on later a cheap notebook if you would need that for your work or to watch some media content, but not as the main system for GBPVR.

GBPVR do even support that can administer your recording from another computer via internet (EWA), so you do not need to have a notebook if you only want to show your friends some recording from home.

[homebrewpc]

A notebook is nice because of the low power and they're designed to be quiet - ideal for the living room. However as much as I've tweaked the hardware and expanded the storage space on machine since I first built it, I'd never go with a notebook.

You're so limited on disk space with a notebook, and even if the storage you get today is sufficient, will it be next year? What if you want multiple tuners? What if you start recording HD content? If you do end up adding additional tuners or HD space, you'll probably have to go with USB or Fireware. Will you be satisfied with stacking external USB devices beside your machine? I wouldn't be.

Go with the desktop. It'll cost you less or allow you to get more for the same money, plus give you many more expansion options later.

Just my two cents,
Tim

Hi Tim, Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated. Both notebooks and PCs have their pro's and con's from what I've gathered. Was thinking that a notebook would be much less power hungry however a USB External Hard Disk Drive would need to be added almost immediately if not immediately which is something that needs to be taken into consideration as you've said.

Does anyone know what's better to go for (where power consumption is concerned), a Core2Duo, an AMD Live Athlon X2 or an AMD Athlon X2 based desktop?.

Are the AMD Live Athlon X2 CPUs similar to Core2Duo CPUs?.

Thank you .

Seasons Greetings.

[homebrewpc]

Either IBM or AMD dual core for now... To me it's okay the Quad is coming out in 2007 so that will blow the dual out of the water. Any good 64-bit CPU is just as quick for running GBPVR. Now if you to get 2GB of RAM, you might want to invest in that...

Hi Tipstir, Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.

Does anyone know whether a Dell C521 AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+, 1Gb Dual Channel DDR (2b Dual Channel DDR for £82.25 extra), 160Gb SATA 8Mb Cache, 16x DVD+/-RW, 128Mb ATI Radeon X1300 PCI-E (256Mb ATI Radeon X1300 PCI-E for £23.50 extra) for £418.99 with 19" TFT Panel is a good buy for running GB-PVR with two or possibly three DVB-T Receivers?.

Don't particularly want to spend too much money on a PC to run GB-PVR firstly because I've not got the cash and, as Tipstir has said Quad Core is due on the market. Not sure what the power consumption is like on a machine like this though .

Was considering using a Core2Duo Aldi/Medion PC however am not sure whether it's worth the money.
(Core2Duo 1.86GHz E6300, 1Gb DDR (not dual channel), 320Gb SATA II 8Mb Cache, 16x DVD+/-RW with Lightscribe, 3-in-1 Tuner DVB-T, DVB-S and Analogue TV, Nvidia GeForce 7650 GS 256Mb DDR with HDMI and DVI output (no panel) , 802.11G WLAN for SP-DIF In, SP-DIF Out, Optical In, Optical Out, SCART, S-Video and Composite connectivity for £549.99).

Not sure what exactly the SP-DIF and Optical connections are for though.

Thank you.

Seasons Greetings.

[homebrewpc]

By IBM do you mean Apples CPU or Intels Core 2 Duo (dual core)? From a fast look at Apples site it seem to be Intel Core 2 Duo in all the new Apples computer on both desktop and notebook. Apple had some special made CPU from IBM, but that seem to be history now.

There is no need to get any quad system yet as it is very expensive to build and it is not enough software for home use even for dual core for which you can take full advantage of multi core system. Most filters and codec are still single core and 32 bit, so you will not get a big boost of multi core sytem.

I would recommend that OP look into what GPU (video card) that could help in hardware to output video and reduce deinterlacing problems. ATIs X1xxx (from X1600 up to X1950XT or even X1950XTX) which can do HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital-Content protection) and handle AVIVO in hardware. (Nvidia have PureVideo, but you will need to buy a full software version to get the same support in hardware as you will get for free in ATIs AVIVO.)

My point are that OP will need to focus on more then just CPU power as GPU can also be vital for high definition content and good image quality. Capture card will also be of importance and with desktop you have at least the option to use internal connection (PCI, PCI express) or external (USB or Firewire).

You can also add on sound card if the integrated on board aren't up to your demand with connections (S/PDIF or analogue) or in quality although most HD audio (everything better then Realtek ALC850) today are really good in quality for normal use and some have even support for Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect.



I don't want to start an argument, but there is nothing that say a notebook will be less demanding in power, especially if it is a low priced model (value model?) as then it is more likely a power hungry CPU inside which will eat battery for lunch or you will need to be constantly connected to power and have a warm/hot battery on your table. It is the same as for desktop that you can find high efficient (=low power demanding) CPU and you will need to do your research before you decide for what is the best in performance/price ratio.

AMD have now dual core (socket AM2) that have three power levels from 89 W, 65 W and 35 W. The price delta from normal (89W) to Energy Efficient (65W) aren't that large and they cost the same, so it is worth to consider. (I think 35 W is still too expensive only to have less power draw and you can have a silent system even with 89 W and with the correct air cooler (after market HSF) you will not hear much from the fan).

I would recommend to read http://www.silentPCreview.com to learn more about building silent systems and what one can do to keep noise at minimum level.

Intel have their Core 2 Duo that have gone very popular as these show better performance compared to FX-60 or FX-62 (high end CPU of AMD at that time), but in stock speed they are more at the same level as Athlon64 X2 (AMDs dual core).

I use GBPVR on Athlon64 X2 4200+@2200Mhz (two core at that speed) and with windows XP x64 Edition, so you will also be able to use GBPVR on any of these CPU I have suggested above.

As a last note I will add that MPEG2 (both analogue tv-tuner with hardware encoding or digital tuner produce MPEG2 files) will demand large space and GBPVR make it very easy to program/schedule recording that will fill your harddisk sooner or later and GBPVR can transcode these recording to save space. Transcoding will demand that you have enough with space and will work best with more then one harddisk in your system, so it will not need to move the heads back an forth during that often. Most notebook have a low speed (5400 RPM) harddisk to save power and very often not so much space as a desktop harddisk would offer for the same price. Save yourself some money and invest in a really good desktop system that you can build yourself and add on later a cheap notebook if you would need that for your work or to watch some media content, but not as the main system for GBPVR.

GBPVR do even support that can administer your recording from another computer via internet (EWA), so you do not need to have a notebook if you only want to show your friends some recording from home.

Hi Blizard,

Thank you for your very informative reply. This is very much appreciated.
Think that opting for a Desktop PC is a better option after reading your response. Was thinking down the lines of a Core2Duo notebook PC consuming a lot less power but did not take the fact that a 5,400rpm hard disk drive would be used as opposed to a 7,200rpm hard disk drive into consideration. Thinking about it running a Core2Duo notebook PC on mains power is more than likely going to cause the battery to fail (the battery could be removed admittedly) and furthermore a Core2Duo notebook PC running 24/7 is likely to run hot at a guess. Don't really like the idea of several USB hard disk drives needing to be added to a Core2Duo notebook PC set-up running GB-PVR so there's a lot to think about.

Edit: Just checked the Dell web-site and the C521 uses an AMD NForce 430 chipset with the AM2 socket.
Does this mean that this particular PC is low power-consumption compared to a Core2Duo PC?.

Are desktop CPUs generally considered to be more reliable for 24/7 use compared to a Core2Duo notebook CPU?.

Kind Regards.

Seasons Greetings.

[colin]

Are desktop CPUs generally considered to be more reliable for 24/7 use compared to a Core2Duo notebook CPU?.

Notebooks are not really designed to be running 24/7.

As for desktop, the PSU is really important, in my opinion. If you are adding HDD's, cards, etc. to it make sure the PSU has enough juice coming into it, to power everything. For GBPVR, i would suggest go with a desktop as it just gives you flexibility to tweak, configuration, expand, etc. the machine.

Cheers,

[colin]

Glad to hear you have success using laptops in this fashion. Not something I would do.

Cheers,

[homebrewpc]

Notebooks are not really designed to be running 24/7.

As for desktop, the PSU is really important, in my opinion. If you are adding HDD's, cards, etc. to it make sure the PSU has enough juice coming into it, to power everything. For GBPVR, i would suggest go with a desktop as it just gives you flexibility to tweak, configuration, expand, etc. the machine.

Cheers,

Hi Colin, Thank you. Much appreciated. Careful consideration into selecting a large enough PSU makes sense agreed.

Happy New Year.

Kind Regards.

[homebrewpc]

Who told you that? Laptops can be running 24/7 without problems as along as they are kept cool nothing blocking the FAN vents. The new ones with 64-bit X64, Dual Core, need external dual fans under the case to stay on longer. I have to do that with my AMD/Compaq notebook is always on and it's overclock to 1.9-2Ghz was rated 1.8GHz and I have 12 cell battery connect to it. . INTEL/DELLs two of them are always on round the clock. One is use as a female girl friday attached to an external ZOOM 56K Caller ID/Call Waiting Modem to take calls. I got the other DELL which is all wireless keyboard, optical mouse and wireless networking attached to my HDTV in the MBR. I can surf the net, remote into network PCs in the house an more from my King size bed...

Hi Tipstir, Thank you for your reply. Someone on another forum said that laptops aren't designed to run 24/7 however that'd caused confusion admittedly as I'd not understood why this was a problem. I'd thought that using a notebook with mobile CPU wasn't a bad idea because they probably do not consume the same amount of power as a desktop CPU. I'm not that concerned with connecting up one or two external USB2.0 Hard Disk Drives either via USB or via a Linksys NSLU2 but guess each format has its own pros and cons. Like the idea of using one of your Intel/Dell notebook PCs as a female girl friday taking calls.

Noticed you've got four MVPs. I've got a question regarding MVP and guess that I should really post under the MVP category of GB-PVR forum however wanted to ask whether or not there's a way to control screen size/resolution on a MVP. Video playback on MVP is too large for the Viewsonic N3000W that I'm using and I've tried various settings however none give satisfactory results.

Your comments would be appreciated.
Thank you.

Happy New Year.

Kind Regards.